Hey, maybe we just need to write the press release next year. Someone does a first draft and then posts it here for corrections or something. 

Yeah, good luck convincing the MSHSL of that. 

I'm sure the person who writes the press release is just a volunteer or intern.  The MSHSL wouldn't have a person or two on staff  with titles like "Director of Information" would they? 

DJ, you're bulletin boarding the MSHSL press release?  What are you going to to, get really upset with Barb Seng for disrespecting Cooper and mug her at the awards ceremony?

Best 'o luck to everyone at state this weekend, esp. the Hornets.

Joe

 I will literally pay you money to do that. 

Um, why would you think anyone in Robbinsdale would mug anyone?  That is so beneath us - we would never do anything like that.

DJ

p.s. But if you do mess with Cooper - be careful in Robbinsdale or we will bust a cap on you.

<quote> p.s. But if you do mess with Cooper - be careful in Robbinsdale or we will bust a cap on you. </quote>

ha ha ha ha ha ha... on...

Ok, so in seriousness, I checked out the website Aneesh posted, and it was set up very nicely.  However, I noticed that, while a few of the Policy teams have self-disclosed, only 1 of the LD competitors had done so.  After all the discussion that happened regarding disclosure being so great for the community and education, very few people seem interested in posting.

Is this because instead of self disclosure, we are only going to post OTHER people's cases on that site (good "education" for all those able to afford a lap top)?  Is this a case where people are talking the talk without walking the walk?  (note: we haven't posted our cases, but we never argued in favor of it, either) 

I know this is a little snarky, but I'm willing to give it a chance if it truly is going to be better for "education" as people claim... however, it doesn't appear to be happening.  Is this just a Policy thing?  Have I missed a step?

For LD, we are still pretty far from a "norm" of disclosure and I think there are several more discussions to be had regarding what specifically LDers are supposed to disclose and whether it's even necessary or beneficial for a 38 minute round.

I think these are beneficial discussions to have, but LD certainly isn't ready for self disclosure today.

here's how we did our disclosure at Greenhill in LD.

Only AV and Harvard-Westlake (us) actually disclosed our cases during the tournament.  Oh well.

http://wiki.debatecoaches.org/index.php?title=Harvard-Westlake_(CA)_-_Sean_Nadel

Sup dawgs?  Congratulations to Yatesh for squirreling on a semifinal round panel.  P.S., if he doesn't, I'm sorry...I wrote this before the semifinal round :)

More seriously...

Someone pointed me out to the turn in this discussion today and I didn't have time to really digest / respond then, so I'll quickly do it now in the small time before I have to wake up.

I think that the caselist for LD put together by Aneesh and Talon is very good.  However, there are two major issues with the use of it for the state tournament, specifically in LD: (1) knowledge of its existence.  I didn't know about it until I saw it on the website today.  That's not about "talking the talk without walking the walk", that's about not trolling the MDTA every day to check for it (busy week this week).  I swear though, had it been in a facebook note or sent via email, message would have definitely been received and I'm sure a lot more schools would have contributed to the pre-tourney case disclosure list.  (2) No time established from norms of the wiki.  Specifically, who posts?  Judges?  Observers?  What is the responsibility of posting?  How do we prevent free-riding?  Again, not a flaw in the wiki, just something that we as a community haven't had time to think about.  So, while I stand by my assertion that a caselist is a good thing, there are admittedly issues regarding implementation of it when there are no established norms for it.

I'm going to put out a few generic ideas and just let them be.  This discussion has become convoluted, there are arguments to observation saying it's anti-educational and others saying it is bad educationally because it provides an unfair advantage...this thread has become one massive shifting target and I don't have the energy to do that anymore.  I'll post now, I might read some responses later, but I'm largely done with the discussion because it's just getting old.

1) Still think disclosure is a good thing.  And, as Andy and others have suggested, I truly think a caselist is a good way to make sure that it's fair.  I think the new observation rule is a step in the definite right direction because it allows schools to get a full grasp of positions being run.  I think a caselist is also good because it prevents information from circulating within "circles".  Let's be honest, open exposure to all makes it so that a single person is not advantaged unfairly.

2) On that: A CASELIST IS NOT A VIOLATION OF MSHSL RULES, despite the constant assertions I'm seeing on the wiki for a few schools who are erasing disclosed cases being posted.  Two reasons: (1) the rule says evidence/flows may not be shared to advantage ONE entry or school - a caselist advantages all and just in general makes for better debate, and more importantly (2) the sign I read on the official MSHSL registration table, from which I picked up the official MSHSL school registration and the official MSHSL judge registration, and which was staffed by the official MSHSL tourney czar Chris Franson, gave a username and password for wireless internet, with a stipulation that it "may only be used for scouting/caselist purposes" and that any other uses - such as research, etc - could result in an entry's being banned from using that given wireless username/password.  Seems to me that this is a pretty good indication that the MSHSL is not only permitting but SANCTIONING this practice.  I'm not quite getting how a caselist is a violation of any right, MSHSL, copyright, or other.

3) Then we get to the laptop argument.  Another few responses: (1) you can still access flows from home tonight - I know that's what a lot of schools are planning to do; (2) public computer terminals are existent; and (3) worse comes to worse, if anyone requests, you can use my computer to check up on some stuff, and I'm sure lots of others will do the same.  I'd rather have the information available on the web for ALL to see rather than ideas (not evidence or flows, mind you) but ideas transferring from person to person.  Let's face it, stuff available to everyone is better than stuff available only to the few linked by friendship, connections, etc.

This thread, again, is somewhat frustrating both due to the multiple directions it's heading - I have opinions on almost everything, but don't have the time to respond to everything - as well as because of the general personal nature it seems to be taking in a lot of different regards.  Most people are engaging in this discussion really constructively.  I hope it continues that way.